Has the Toni case died a death?

[_Lee_]

Just wanted to know if all avenues of Toni being punished for his fraudulent activities are now closed. Its now a few years since it all came to light, but it all seems to have stopped. Obviously we as collectors are still debating it and trying to weed out the good and bad, but with him still selling on Ebay etc it doesnt seem like anything is going to happen.

Shame because something should have been done especially with the evidence gathered and everything else that was brought to light.

Lee

 

[mr_palitoy]

Just wanted to know if all avenues of Toni being punished for his fraudulent activities are now closed. Its now a few years since it all came to light, but it all seems to have stopped. Obviously we as collectors are still debating it and trying to weed out the good and bad, but with him still selling on Ebay etc it doesnt seem like anything is going to happen.

Shame because something should have been done especially with the evidence gathered and everything else that was brought to light.

Lee

Our best shot at it was with Fake Britain after the BBC piece was filmed and at that time they needed more evidence and complaints to make a follow up piece. Would have been great if it had happened, Dom and/or Matt Allwright doorstepping Toni at 5am on a Sunday morning with half a dozen of the local constabulary. Sniffer dogs trained to smell out 30 year old cardboard. Gripping viewing.

:lol:

Jason

 

[spoons]

The police did take up the case too but soon dropped it through lack of evidence

 

[ScruffyLookingNH]

I tried contacting Fake Britain for a follow up suggestion and providing information but had zero response. If someone has the crime number and details of the (at least) which force this was reported to and was considering an investigation I'd be keen to follow it up. I have my first cheap TT now and it's a 3PO with a nice shiney surface to boot. No better example to rip off the card and get prints from.

 

[decipher28]

I would like to think there would be some sort of punishment or recourse for his actions otherwise the man has deliberately comitted fraud,ripped off people,tainted the hobby,benefitted finacially from his activities,and has gotton away with it scott free.

That can't be right or be overlooked surely.Does the lack of evidence excuse really hold water?

I thought there was some evidence of fraud being comitted.What with iron marks on cards,the purchase of unused cardbacks,the buying of mint figures off ebay using various accounts.Or is the cps/police apathy to such a case a factor.

 

[SAVORY100]

To be fair, despite us all now seeing this as an apparently obvious crime, I can well believe a Police Force would find it hard to justify the historical investigating needed for this over some of the other crimes they may have to deal with that are literally happening live before them, given the evidence gathering required and costs etc. especially compared to the provable level of fraud and damages involved.

I know a crime is a crime and all should be punished, but I expect there is an element at least, of them having to weigh up what to pursue in full and what to just keep as a record. A friend is a senior officer.. I might have to ask how it works... unless someone already knows, do they have to decide between a rapist reported to them or toy fiddler reported to them and then make a choice to make resources stretch.

 

[Palifan]

To be fair, despite us all now seeing this as an apparently obvious crime, I can well believe a Police Force would find it hard to justify the historical investigating needed for this over some of the other crimes they may have to deal with that are literally happening live before them, given the evidence gathering required and costs etc. especially compared to the provable level of fraud and damages involved.

I know a crime is a crime and all should be punished, but I expect there is an element at least, of them having to weigh up what to pursue in full and what to just keep as a record. A friend is a senior officer.. I might have to ask how it works... unless someone already knows, do they have to decide between a rapist reported to them or toy fiddler reported to them and then make a choice to make resources stretch.

I think this unfortunately really does some up all this situation, it's just not going to be seen as a big enough incident for the police to get involved. Maybe if a high enough police officer had got caught up in all of this things may have been different but I still doubt it.

I feel sorry for anyone who was caught out by this whole mess and think I may even have one of his mocs in my collection (although I've never had the chance to double check). It happened and at least it's now been put out there for everyone to see so at least he's stopped producing them and it sounds like the grading companies don't want anything to do with him. It's a small win for the amount of money he's potentially made out of this over the years. Hopefully one day someone who's been caught out will bump into him at Snoopers or a toy fair and will have a chance to talk to him directly about it but it feels like that's the best thing that's ever going to happen.

I'm not sure if anyone out there has found any other way to potentially bring some financial justice to this, and I guess there's always hope that something will happen one day but it's hard to imagine with all the work that's happened already. It probably doesn't help that some people are now seeing it as a cool idea to collect Toni's as some sort of oddball focus as this almost belittles the whole thing.

For now I think people really are doing the best they can with educating people about this disaster and keeping an eye on sellers who are trying to sell these things as legit vintage items. Keep up the good work and I do believe that karma will probably play a part in all of this at some point.

Ian

 

[decipher28]

Hopefully bit of karma does comes round to bite toytoni even if there are no criminal reapercussions,like a sly punch to the gut or kick in the gonads that would be better than nothing.Would also make me chuckle.


I guess if somebody were quite badly out of pocket with the scam,there would be nothing stopping you from starting civil court proceedings against toy toni if you wanted.

 

[Sabreman]

I must admit this whole toy Toni thing has passed me by as I have only been collecting just ver a year. I would love to know what he looks like and what to look for as tbh I haven't got a clue, something that could bite me on the rear at some stage.

 

[robpmarsh]

Maybe he'll be stupid enough to turn up at Celebration and someone will point him out.

Could escalate quickly

Maybe dangling him from an Emirates cable car would happen 8)

 

[mr_palitoy]

The big question is what happened to the cardbacks he didnt card up?

There were 12k of these, if Toni had decided to sell them as is from the go set, we would have a Palitoy unused cardback collecters community at least the size of the Kenner Proof market.

By my estimates he carded up between half and two thirds of all the cards he had.

That leaves between 4-6k unaccounted for.

Toni either destroyed them, stuck them in a lock up, gave them to a friend for safe keeping or they are still in his house.

What would be great for the collecting community is for these cards to get back into collectors hands. These are the outcomes if Toni still has the cards:-

1) He decides to start selling them again. He risks jail in this case so unlikely.
2) The police raid him and cease the cards. This is the worst case scenario for the cards. The police would almost certainly have them destroyed after they ceased them.
3) Nature takes its course, Toni passes on, and whoever inherits his estate can then sell them legitimately.

Jason

 

[sith-smith]

It could all go the same way billyboyrogers went. Don't here anything about that now. Admittedly he wasn't on the same scale as TT.

At least the TT stuff has had more of a public (and TV) airing!

 

[decipher28]

The big question is what happened to the cardbacks he didnt card up?

There were 12k of these, if Toni had decided to sell them as is from the go set, we would have a Palitoy unused cardback collecters community at least the size of the Kenner Proof market.

By my estimates he carded up between half and two thirds of all the cards he had.

That leaves between 4-6k unaccounted for.

Toni either destroyed them, stuck them in a lock up, gave them to a friend for safe keeping or they are still in his house.

What would be great for the collecting community is for these cards to get back into collectors hands. These are the outcomes if Toni still has the cards

If these unused cardbacks were ever see the light of day and come onto the market that would be a fantastic addition to the collecting arena.The potential scope for a new area of collecting could be huge.It be amazing to think they still exist somewhere and could one day come onto the market.In way one that would be a bit of redemption of toy toni if these did come onto the market.

To think they could be destroyed is sad and hopefully that isn't the case.Who wouldn't jump at the chance to own some unused cardbacks that show the full beauty of the card without the bubble/figure,shop stickers,etc.In theory they should be in excellent condition as well which would make for great display pieces.

I wonder if we will ever find out...

 

[mr_palitoy]

The big question is what happened to the cardbacks he didnt card up?

There were 12k of these, if Toni had decided to sell them as is from the go set, we would have a Palitoy unused cardback collecters community at least the size of the Kenner Proof market.

By my estimates he carded up between half and two thirds of all the cards he had.

That leaves between 4-6k unaccounted for.

Toni either destroyed them, stuck them in a lock up, gave them to a friend for safe keeping or they are still in his house.

What would be great for the collecting community is for these cards to get back into collectors hands. These are the outcomes if Toni still has the cards

If these unused cardbacks were ever see the light of day and come onto the market that would be a fantastic addition to the collecting arena.The potential scope for a new area of collecting could be huge.It be amazing to think they still exist somewhere and could one day come onto the market.In way one that would be a bit of redemption of toy toni if these did come onto the market.

To think they could be destroyed is sad and hopefully that isn't the case.Who wouldn't jump at the chance to own some unused cardbacks that show the full beauty of the card without the bubble/figure,shop stickers,etc.In theory they should be in excellent condition as well which would make for great display pieces.

I wonder if we will ever find out...

Toni sold a limited number of these uncarded at a convention in the USA in the late 90s and then by post to some collectors he met there. Maybe 50 odd in total. AFA even graded some of them as Proof cards with a rounded corner variation.



Jason

 

[decipher28]

^Would like to see pics of these any about? Would john kellerman have any or know/mention them in his book?

also wonder what range of characters if know were part of unused stock

 

[_Lee_]

Yeah, Andy Loney got shitloads and i know Billy Boy did too. Id say a lot more than 50 were sold though, and ive heard from people who saw stacks of them for sale at shows. Billy Boy himself was pretty friendly with Toni so god only knows what got out.

I personally dont think the unused cards would be too popular unless they were cheap. I remember paying £110 for my Lando Skiff in 2004, and it was graded. Its strange that only a handful of different characters got out though.

 

[Bonsai_Tree_Ent]

For those who haven't seen this thread: http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29850

Huge haul of Toy Toni's listed by Action Force Andy, including 80 Toy Toni Hoth Stormtroopers. :shock:

 

[edd_jedi]

I wonder if he's bought a load of Toni's stock?

 

[jedisearcher]

I wonder if he's bought a load of Toni's stock?

More likely he just got stuck with it when the scandal broke. The job lot is basically everything he has left, so if he had anything of Toni's it would be sold with it.

 

[edd_jedi]

The reason I ask is that Toni seems to have vanished off the face of the earth. No new stock in his Brighton stall for months, hasn't updated his website for probably a year now, virtually nothing on eBay either. Fakes aside, he has a **** load of genuine stuff. I can't figure out why he's not capitalising on the massive hype at the moment knowing what he has. He could clean up. Case in point - the £140 pop-up R2 MOCs he was churning out for years. He could be charging £3-400 for them now.