Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

_Lee_

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ace said:
Palitoy78 said:
If this is Jason,ive seen your collection in the flesh.Can you remind me where it was on display again??? back in 2000 if i remember correcty (id like Jason/ace to answer that-i know where it was displayed) do have the original advertising poster somewhere.

Also,the Offworld stores you had donea great job in ripping people off.My mother came to you looking for an xmas present for me and either you,or one of those twats who worked for you sold her a sneak preview Mace Windu for about 10 tmes more than it was worth and told her it was limited to 500 worldwide.

There was also an article in a local paper where i live,which stated your store had been caught selling fake props-remember? There were numerous props,not onlySW either

Oh,and BTW im pretty confident that the cards theory is true.I have known of that for a long time,but kept quiet.Ive even heard rumours lately,that many,many Palitoy ROTJ figures were
made as recently as early 2000.So,this can of worms is now well and truly opened.I heard this from 2 reliable sources...

Brown nose sandperson??? WTF???




hi Palitoy78 nice to meet you also :)


point one

well there was a display of my collection at the luton Museum where i displayed 200 items of my 500.000 it was opened by Gary Kurtz and we have over 65.000 fans go through it , i originally looked out 500 items not knowing how much space that really takes up so had to take most of it home :) so i hope that helps proves that i am who i say i am , the links to my Facebook should also go toward that proof also :).

pont 2

my store was run by a manager like all my stores as i never worked in any of them , i was just busy looking after the company and left the day to day running with collectors that was into one of the subjects we retailed , in the case of Luton it would have been Jammie and his thing was transformers in a big way and that show had an amazing collation of transformers, as to your mothers perches of a sneak preview Mace Windu you clam she was charged 10 times the price ? thats a little odd , 1 do you think we would sell many if they were that over priced ? 2 when we has stock in the shop of new toys we had them in around 2 to 3 months before toys r us had them in so what was on sale was imported figures that came in 2 to 3 months before direct from our contact from Hong Kong called fred , yep he called himself fred :) anyway these figures were expressed in from Hong Kong air mail and there is a premium cost to these figures we also used to sell these same figures at the NEC memroerbila fare and if you ever went there they you will remember our stand back in around 1999 2000 ish as it was the one with a 3 meatier sign above the stall saying cheapest new figures in the hall , and this pissed of many of the other traders but they could not complain or stop us as what we said on the banner was the truth we was the cheapest figures in the hall and at that time in most places , so you say 10 times more than it was worth , i am sorry that not true , it would have been £9.95 i remember our retail price when it did come out officially i think the retail price was £2.95 but us selling them 3 months before they were supposed to come out in the UK so that was a fair mark up , £2.95 cost of figure , shipping £2 from Hong Kong , import duty 75p alien figure license bought from government ( yes that another story and these dose not exist now days but back then this was for real ) £1.50 so my total cost was £7.20 and i sold this item for £9.95 and i then have to pay 15% Vat on the profit and retail price so it leaves us with around £1.30 a figure which if you want to know now was that was our margin we worked on all our imported new figures around £1.50 . hardly the rip off you clam it was now you know the numbers, i ran my shops for 10 years and they did well and employed 3 people full time in them so we must have had a lot of customers to have kept them going, but sorry you feel that way about this , i know lots of other people that really loved these shops and i loved running them . ho and your point about someone telling you that the figure was limited to 500 , i do not believe that was said , to produce a run of figures you need to produce a limited run of at least 20,000 to make that work that figure was being offered all across the US there was going to be 10,s of 1000s and the manager would know that and lying to a customer will only come back on us and we would lose a costumer so why do it we do not need to we sold 150 of ever new figure t our regulars so we really do not need to lie to your mum or any customer.

pont 3

the story you refer to was about autographs not props , there may have been a slur about having props int he shop but it was about the autographs, the local news paper did not believe that what we had in the shop was real so they sent in a undercover reporter to go into the show and talk for over an hour to the manager and quizzed him about if that was a real Darth Mall autograph , they then wrote up a hatchet job playing us that the certificates where sighed off by the manager of the show ? i do not know who else they thought they were going to be signed off by ?, at the end of the day the autographs came from the events we ran and the guest we had at them , the news paper did not need much proof as they wrote it in such a way that it all but called the autographs fake , so there was no come back on them , at the end of the day we do not sell fakes , never have never will , all autographs are real and as such we put letters inauthenticity with then so anyone buying them thew the show had a paper chain, i was one of the board of director AFTEL when it started up , this group was created to inshore the authenticity and to protect collators , i was at the time a member of the UACC another group to protect collators i run Autographica the worlds biggest autograph show in the world and is respected all around the world by collectors and guest alike , these are the facts and again i have nothing to hid in any way on this matter.

point 4

most people that have been collating carded figures from the late 80s and 90s will have herd something i think ? i am the only person that had numbers and knew first hand what was sold etc, but many new this was the case.

As to your story of ROTJ Palitoy figures being made in around 2000 i find that very hard to believe and i will tell you why , 1 you would have to have lots of mint figures available to you to put into the packing, 2 then you would need to make the packaging and thats when you hit a wall my friend , thank god but we all evolve and as such we went from photographic to digital in the 90s and the process of printing change and as such if you look at anything under a microscope you will see the printing is not the same as it used to be in the 70s 80s or even early 90s so i think your story is just that a stories, i donut there is much truth in these remaking of carded figures in 2000 , if there was a big hall of mint figures in 2000 i think my company would have herd of it at that time as we was all over this stuff back then and we did not here anything like this.

you say you herd this from two 2 reliable sources... why not tell the names ? you call me out about the issue you had with my company and i have been fine responding to that it cool, so why not name names ? i think if you have names and more info on this you should just air it and get it out there an it can be cleared up,.


point 5
"Brown nose sandperson??? WTF???" yep amazing isn't it :) now there is something to look for ;-)


so it was good to air some points with you Palitoy78 i am sorry my shop did not please you back then , now that ebay has taken over the world i am shore you are much happier with the way you can by all your new figures and the prices you can get them for now days, but back then it was very different.

one last point i am glad you like the shows i run and if you really do not want to put any money in to my pockets then you should come to Colltormaina Milton Keynes as that show is completely free entry to the fans and i will not benefit in any way what so ever from you attending so enjoy.


jason

Jason,

My point about the carded figures were about the ones being made using original cardbacks and bubbles,not complete replicas as you thought i implied.Also,to say you were the only person who had numbers etc,is a bold statement to make.There are/were other big collectors around aswell.

I did see your collection at the Luton museum as i live in Luton.It is a great collection and i take my hat off to you for that.It was great to take my son to see it.

I do go to almost every single one of your CM shows,and realise how much hard work it is.I take my hat off to you for organising such great events.I do put money in your pockets at CM by paying for autographs mate,so think again on that point.

With regards to the Mace Windu,i can assure you that is true.My mother bought me it for christmas and it wasnt till later that i realised when she said how expensive and rare it was for a figure like that.When i said ten times more,i was generalising-IIRC she paid £25 for it.I accept you maybe not being there,but dont make your employees at the time to be angels.I always remember items being way overpriced there,but i understand you running a business.On another note they also sold my sister a 1995 x wing,telling her it was vintage,and if you want i could get her to clarify that.£35 for a loose X WING isnt right is it? and being told it was vintage isnt true Jason.

The next Collectormania MK show,i will happlily meet up with you for a chat Jason.That way i can clear things up with you.As i said,it probably wasnt your fault and i think you have done more positive stuff for the hobby in recent years.

I will definately meet up with you as i said.

Lee
 

mr_palitoy

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Mr-shifter said:
escapist said:
If the AFA are grading these, then the question is, what impact would this ever have on values? Clearly the guy has been able to 'fake' something indistinguishable from the real thing using the same source material. In real terms, would it ever be possible to 'prove' this point, and as a result, call into question the integrity of the AFA.

To clarify, I have no feelings against the AFA, but if anyone was able to conclusively demonstrate difference between these 90's reseal/recard (not sure which!) it would certainly mean some grades would effectively be worthless!

I am watching this thread with great interest. I have some toytoni MOC's, and want to buy more. Im not entirely sure how I feel about this and would really appreciate Toni to come on and give his side of the story.

One thing that it would mean, is that if the AFA can be fooled by a (used) figure sealed to an unused card years after the event, the whole grading system is flawed, including the u-grading system. I know toni has sold u-grades on his website. If these are MOC's from his stock that he has sent in to have u-graded, the most likely scenario since he has large stocks of some figures, and if these MOC's are figures that have been brought as mint loose and resealed to an unused card back then there is no guarantee any u-grade figure is not effectively a re-seal. So the bullshit U on your AFA graded figure actually means **** all.

The bullshit U on an AFA graded figure means **** all regardless. Someone touched it when they put it in the bubble and then again when it was taken out.

:)

Jason
 

Mr-shifter

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mr_palitoy said:
The bullshit U on an AFA graded figure means **** all regardless. Someone touched it when they put it in the bubble and then again when it was taken out.

:)

Jason

I know, but it means even more **** all now, because despite being touched when sealed, and then later fingered by some stooge at the AFA it could have also been through the hands of collectors, dealers and maybe even in the personal possession of a kid at some point.

I guess I just want something to happen that means there's no further point in u grading and all of the u graders will end up crying into there worthless collections.
 

mr_palitoy

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Some of my thoughts on impact.

If Toni is indeed sitting on a large stockpile of these German/Palitoy reassembled cards, does this mean the market is about to collapse?
Toni has been careful to trickle these into the market over the years so that it doesnt.

Will Toni come clean. and sell them for what they are, or sell the original mint cardbacks? I for one, would love some unused German/Palitoy
cardbacks for my collection.

I'm also worried about the impact on value of my AFA 90 ROTJ Palitoy MOC run. Some of the figures that it affects have already been mentioned:-
boba fett (£500 for an AFA 90), snowtrooper (£100 for an AFA 90). There are also loads of C3PO removable arms and 21bs out there. Are they on the list?
It would be good if a complete list of affected figures was made available by Toni.

Jason Joiner, you also mentioned having a list?

:eek:

Jason
 

ace

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Palitoy78 said:
Also,you guys think the guywho apparently has the largest collection in the world doesnt know what U-grading is???seriously???


well i do not , you may not understand that slang in any walk of life is mostly understood by the group that use it , if you ask other people the names of games we played at school many of the same games are called different names , its really weird, i do not hang out on forums so and i do not hang out with many collectors so why would i know the name you call something ?

jason
 

ace

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mr_palitoy said:
Some of my thoughts on impact.

If Toni is indeed sitting on a large stockpile of these German/Palitoy reassembled cards, does this mean the market is about to collapse?
Toni has been careful to trickle these into the market over the years so that it doesnt.

Will Toni come clean. and sell them for what they are, or sell the original mint cardbacks? I for one, would love some unused German/Palitoy
cardbacks for my collection.

I'm also worried about the impact on value of my AFA 90 ROTJ Palitoy MOC run. Some of the figures that it affects have already been mentioned:-
boba fett (£500 for an AFA 90), snowtrooper (£100 for an AFA 90). There are also loads of C3PO removable arms and 21bs out there. Are they on the list?
It would be good if a complete list of affected figures was made available by Toni.

Jason Joiner, you also mentioned having a list?

:eek:

Jason



hi mr_palitoy

i do have a list of unused cards and lose figures , and then a list of carded figures also, i do not have a list of bobbles so i do not know who many there was of them ? this list is at my warehouse in a box marked old biz , i saw this around a year ago when going though old paper work and though at the time wow they would be worth so much now days, ? anyway i will dig this out if you do not get the list from Toni ok everyone.

but i am going to hold off now and give Toni the space and time that i never had on places like to clear this matter up , its fair that if someone is being accused of something they should have the right to reply and explain things, i think thats only fare, i wish someone would have told me what things were being said years back with out my knolage ? so i think its right to give Toni time to respond before i bring anything more to the table on this matter .

jason
 

Caswellbot

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If this is true, The mocs that would have been constructed would be palitoy/ general mills with bubbles which have the "slick seals". These have always bothered me slightly as they have always looked relatively easy to reseal etc. Unlike the Kenner common "waffle" pattern. The revelation obviously would have some ramifications for afa but i dont know to what extent it would ruin their credibility.

Chris.
 

ace

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Palitoy78 said:
ace said:
Palitoy78 said:
Jason,

My point about the carded figures were about the ones being made using original cardbacks and bubbles,not complete replicas as you thought i implied.Also,to say you were the only person who had numbers etc,is a bold statement to make.There are/were other big collectors around aswell.

I did see your collection at the Luton museum as i live in Luton.It is a great collection and i take my hat off to you for that.It was great to take my son to see it.

I do go to almost every single one of your CM shows,and realise how much hard work it is.I take my hat off to you for organising such great events.I do put money in your pockets at CM by paying for autographs mate,so think again on that point.

With regards to the Mace Windu,i can assure you that is true.My mother bought me it for christmas and it wasnt till later that i realised when she said how expensive and rare it was for a figure like that.When i said ten times more,i was generalising-IIRC she paid £25 for it.I accept you maybe not being there,but dont make your employees at the time to be angels.I always remember items being way overpriced there,but i understand you running a business.On another note they also sold my sister a 1995 x wing,telling her it was vintage,and if you want i could get her to clarify that.£35 for a loose X WING isnt right is it? and being told it was vintage isnt true Jason.

The next Collectormania MK show,i will happlily meet up with you for a chat Jason.That way i can clear things up with you.As i said,it probably wasnt your fault and i think you have done more positive stuff for the hobby in recent years.

I will definately meet up with you as i said.

Lee

point 1

ok thats fine i understand that about the figures, as to my bold statement about the only one other than Toni having these numbers as we were the key players, this was back in the 1980s to the late 1990s and i stand by this fact as at that time over here there was no one that had the buying power or that had been in the industry as long as us and as we started the worlds first deducted sic-fi shows at cheshunt back in 1985 we were connected though out the UK and was the only sic-if retailer that did this full time as a business in the UK and had contacts in most countries that sold star wars in them , so we could import and export like no one else in the world at that time , we was the only person that had money Arthur was buying and selling to me and Toni at that time , the figures was not opened up for everyone to buy into as both Arthur and Toni both was experienced dealers and you lean if you show to much or dump to much it affects the price so it was not put on a table at a show it was just offered out to me first i think and i was getting to grips with the amount of cards and figures there was and trying to haggle the price when Arthur told me there had been sold , next show i saw Toni at i saw he had stock and we talked about how much there was and how long it would take to recoup his money he never told me the fine amount he paid , i just know when i was talking to Arthur at first it was 10K


point 2

thank you for the complaint i am glad your son like it also if i was a kid i think i would have liked it also thats what i though about when we made the falcon cockpit which i still have :) , as i say 65,000 people viseted it and it was free so anyone could see it i got a lot out of doing that , a bit like empire day at the studio


points 3

thank you for supporting my events , and i am glad you enjoy them also , as to paying the guests for autographs the income form the guest normally covers the guests fees and if they are international flights needed then there hotels and flights , so if we cover the costs we are happy and that is what often happens so i can see why you may thing we get good money from the guest but in real life we do not look at them as a income steam but thank you for supporting the events anyway

point 4

the dreaded Mace Windu figure :-( i do nto want to fight you on this as i really cannot prove what i am saying as much as you cannot prove what you are saying , all i can say is that is not the practice i would condone from my staff and shops , also your other point abut the x wing anyone can see if its a reissue or not so again i do not know why we A would do that to a customer and B why we would need to do that , i have never needed to cheat people to make money , if you get the right deal and you pay the right price and you sell it at a far mark up you do not need to con anyone , i will say on our high end and very rare stuff we was expensive and if i had a show now it would be the same as i believe that high end stuff only go's up and when you have sold it its so hard to replace , so we were never cheep on the cream , i will put up my hands on that one , but i was not there when my staff sold these things to your family i do not know what was said or what was not said , i know you believe what you are telling me and i can understand where you are coming form on this , i just hope you can also see where i am coming form also , it was not policy to try to con anyone or over price things , we have margins and we were not a normal toy shop , all i can say if we did do anything wrong i am sorry for that , and i mean that its not how i would behave then or now and people that do know me will know that what i say is real , hope that helps in some way ?

point 5

if you want to meet up at my next event and say hi i am more than happy to chat , warning i talk more in real life then on here as its easier so be warned :) and if i am not running around like crazy i might buy you a drink , ok


as i say its good to talk and understand where each of us is coming from and i hope we can build on that also , thanks for taking the time to take on here

jason
 

Starzone

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I have 3 unused Palitoy backing cards in my collection, some people have called them proof cards but they are not....just unused backing cards.

I have Snowtrooper, C-3PO Limbs and an Ewok (think Logray) I bought these around 1991-92 at a Donington toy fair so I guess they could have been from the same source
 

Joe

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Jason, with regard to the props - I am not a prop collector but I have been collecting for well over 10 years now and as far as I can remember I have been hearing bad things about you and the props you have bought and sold. I will do my best to hunt down some information on specific incidents though because I agree with you, it's pointless to talk about props unless I have all the information. However I do just want to confirm that you are saying that in all the time you have been involved in the prop game you have never had a fake go through your hands and to your knowledge these claims are all false?

As for the story about Toni..well I had heard a rumour but I haven't heard anything concrete, I always put it down to people either being jealous of the figures he had the foresight to buy in bulk or the disbelief that cards that old could look that mint. As far as I know he has always claimed that his figures are warehouse finds/ex shop stock. Jason (Smith) -I think it's a little silly to ask what the impact will be if he did in fact seal figures to cards himself in the 90's..total catastrophe I would assume. I had already emailed Toni yesterday to clarify but of course I haven't had a reply, although Toni was always slow with emails so nothing to worry about just yet.

I really do hope Toni can set the record straight on this one. I remember asking him if he ever picked up shipping cases of Trilogos and he said "by the time the figures reached me they weren't in cases" which I found a bit odd at the time as all I ever remember hearing about his stock was that most of it was factory fresh and old warehouse stock so I always assumed he had a few original shipping cases around. I am as intrigued as everyone else to find out the truth..

Jason (Joiner) - I know it seems like I am the only one on here that's asking you these questions but not everyone on this forum has heard about you or your past and if they have they might not want to rock the boat with you. It always seemed to me that you really have upset a lot of people over the years and like I have said, there seems to be so many examples of you dealing with less than kosher items so I still don't just think it's because you were a ruthless buyer. I've heard of people actually laying into you with their fists at toy fairs..that's not normal behaviour if true and I doubt it came about because you outbid someone surely? Was it not someone called Alan that had a fight with you once? What was that about?
 

_Lee_

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I would just like to reiterate that i am not pointing fingers at anyone with regards to these unused backers/bubbles.I will state however,that Billy Boy also claimed to have owned/saw stacks of Fett,Scout and C3P0 unused backers.Think of that what you must.Dont forget his recent history.Throwing accusations at Toni isnt entirely fair as he isnt aware of this being said,unless of course he has read the emails you guys have sent him.I will say again that i started thinking of this around 2000-2001 after buying a Boba Fett,something just didnt sit right and the fact those twin stem bubbles came on the Fett cards is very strange-but thats just my opinion,there may be a reason for that and they are legit.

Jason,i will meet up with you at MK to explain this face to face.

Lee
 

x-pack

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Fantastic thread guys. Potentially one that changes things for a lot of people. Even though I was collecting in the early 90's I did not know this information.

Thanks for getting back to us Jason (Joiner) and proving that it really is you :wink:
 

x-pack

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Palitoy78 said:
I would just like to reiterate that i am not pointing fingers at anyone with regards to these unused backers/bubbles.I will state however,that Billy Boy also claimed to have owned/saw stacks of Fett,Scout and C3P0 unused backers.Think of that what you must.Dont forget his recent history.Throwing accusations at Toni isnt entirely fair as he isnt aware of this being said,unless of course he has read the emails you guys have sent him.I will say again that i started thinking of this around 2000-2001 after buying a Boba Fett,something just didnt sit right and the fact those twin stem bubbles came on the Fett cards is very strange-but thats just my opinion,there may be a reason for that and they are legit.

Jason,i will meet up with you at MK to explain this face to face.

Lee


Have we got time for a stupid question? Of course we have.. :)

What's the difference between unused cardbacks and proofs?
 

Joe

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x-pack said:
Have we got time for a stupid question? Of course we have.. :)

What's the difference between unused cardbacks and proofs?

There are various differences between unused backers and proof cards, usually the thickness of the card, the cut of the card and the location/shape of the punch. The Palitoy unused cards are identical the the production cards and have never been proven to be actual proof cards.

There is some information in this thread that touched on the subject and a few threads on RS - http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12522
 

ace

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Joe said:
Jason, with regard to the props - I am not a prop collector but I have been collecting for well over 10 years now and as far as I can remember I have been hearing bad things about you and the props you have bought and sold. I will do my best to hunt down some information on specific incidents though because I agree with you, it's pointless to talk about props unless I have all the information. However I do just want to confirm that you are saying that in all the time you have been involved in the prop game you have never had a fake go through your hands and to your knowledge these claims are all false?

As for the story about Toni..well I had heard a rumour but I haven't heard anything concrete, I always put it down to people either being jealous of the figures he had the foresight to buy in bulk or the disbelief that cards that old could look that mint. As far as I know he has always claimed that his figures are warehouse finds/ex shop stock. Jason (Smith) -I think it's a little silly to ask what the impact will be if he did in fact seal figures to cards himself in the 90's..total catastrophe I would assume. I had already emailed Toni yesterday to clarify but of course I haven't had a reply, although Toni was always slow with emails so nothing to worry about just yet.

I really do hope Toni can set the record straight on this one. I remember asking him if he ever picked up shipping cases of Trilogos and he said "by the time the figures reached me they weren't in cases" which I found a bit odd at the time as all I ever remember hearing about his stock was that most of it was factory fresh and old warehouse stock so I always assumed he had a few original shipping cases around. I am as intrigued as everyone else to find out the truth..

Jason (Joiner) - I know it seems like I am the only one on here that's asking you these questions but not everyone on this forum has heard about you or your past and if they have they might not want to rock the boat with you. It always seemed to me that you really have upset a lot of people over the years and like I have said, there seems to be so many examples of you dealing with less than kosher items so I still don't just think it's because you were a ruthless buyer. I've heard of people actually laying into you with their fists at toy fairs..that's not normal behaviour if true and I doubt it came about because you outbid someone surely? Was it not someone called Alan that had a fight with you once? What was that about?


Hi Joe is ok and i understand your fear, as i say i expected to have some intense conversations in entering this forum, some decent collectors do look out for each other and as they stories have gone un defended for years they have gone around and have gotten bigger and bigger so its fine, i must say there are people that now better about me and have not bothered to step in to correct things when maybe they know another view to the facts but its very interesting how some that maybe i would have thought might have steeped in over the years did not :-\ , anyway i never really bothered to make lots of friends in the community and maybe thats my pay back , there seems to be a lot less rivalry in here and maybe now days its nicer than it was back then ? , that was why i started to stay away from the collecting community and kept my self to myself as i got no fun from hang out with some of the either collectors, you could not win in a way , if you have something cool or interesting and told them what you had found they would say that dose not exist and i am a lier , then you show them it and they they get all jealous and do not want to talk to you , you can see the way i have answered some of the posts on here i am very used to this kind of response , its not really a fun thing to have to do on everything you show or talk about , i am bothering to prove everything i say on here as i am trying to show people what i am and that what i say is for real , in the past i have to say i just could not be bothered and just felt that if you do not believe me thats your ignorance and left them to it , so that may help in people understanding me a little , the only thing i will admit to being my fault, is being cocky and a little arrogant in my youth , i have grown up over the years and mellowed a bit ?

now to your points

point 1

i can say i have never knowingly sold or traded a prop that was not what i thought it was.

i have been offered fakes many of them over the years.

i have even bought one or two things that have turned out to be fake.

i have even had things that i have owned and have been sent away to be repaired then to find out the scumbag has copied it and then the crook has sold a copy or tried to sell copies as real ,that has happened to me also.

but i have never sold something knowingly that i knew was not what i thought it was .

so know i have not knowingly sold a fake.

i hope that clear that up for you so if you want to bring me some of the stories thats fine but can i ask one thing as its all on me here , can you tell me what you have a story who is saying it please , as i think thats fare and i also thing a lot of these stories do come from one or two people originally, is that fair to ask , i am doing my part here , i think its only fair i know who my accuser is and then they also come forward and share a little of what i am having to deal with here ? let me know if you think that is fare ?

point 2

Toni , as i have said before i feel he should have the space to respond before i go into this any more really , it what i fee should have happened to me and everyone should have the chance to respond before a mob action starts up , i have been on the front end i feel of a mob and its hard to deal with for most people , the important thing here is finding out the truth so everyone knows the truth and then they can valuate the impact of things in there own way , for me my collection was never about money it was about owning the item its self so what it cost me back in the past or whats it worth was and is irrelevant t me and all i wanted to do was own it , thats just my thoughts behind all of this , so lets leave this for Toni to come back on .

point 3

well as i say there are lots of storeys out there , and yes i was a ruthless collector that i am guilty of , was i cocky yep i was , i was also good at what i did find stuff , i have not done anything underhand knowingly and i stand buy that , you say about a person i was involved with a altercation with ? in the time i was retailing from the age of 13 to 30 years there was insolence wear things got heated , like the time i was at kempton park racecourse i was 18 and i single handily caught 3 members of the same gang that was stealing good from traders , i got a thank you from the police and the organises and the traders that got there stock back , it was in the collators gazette i think at the time ? so yes i will get involved if needed like i do at all the event i run , i have caught over 100 + thieves over the years some have come quietly some have not , its part of my job to protect the shows and the traders and you will here there is very little thieving at my events , as to an indent relating to a prop i do not ever remember such an incident , but as we agreed bring me the story and if you can who is perpetuating it and i will try to help clear it up ok :).


one more thing Joe thank you for being more open and cooler on these matters it dose help the proses and in time you will see i have no plans to lie on anything i just want to put my side of things over and it will become clear who i am so think you.

j
 

ace

Jedi Knight
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
253
Joe said:
x-pack said:
Have we got time for a stupid question? Of course we have.. :)

What's the difference between unused cardbacks and proofs?

There are various differences between unused backers and proof cards, usually the thickness of the card, the cut of the card and the location/shape of the punch. The Palitoy unused cards are identical the the production cards and have never been proven to be actual proof cards.

There is some information in this thread that touched on the subject and a few threads on RS - http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12522


hi Joe this we can agree on totally

"thickness of the card, the cut of the card and the location/shape of the punch"

i have one unused Palitoy card from when i bought Gary Kurtz collection i wanted to be a prof card but it was just a unused card , it was sent to Gary to show what the final card was going to look like , it was with a prototype die cast star destroyer with a back conning tower and a die cast falcon that was white and has some final detail missing and no copyright on them , all very cool but no palitoy proof card something i am missing to this day :-(

but we agree just because there is no figure attached then that dose not make it anything more then an unused card thats my thinking also .

j
 

ace

Jedi Knight
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
253
Palitoy78" Billy Boy [/quote said:
is this Billy Boy the french doll collector ? thats the only Billy Boy i know and thats a name i have not herd in a long time a long time :)

never met him but know of him , if it is the same guy then he only really used to collet barbies ? but his collection was legendary back in the 80s what it mush be like now wow ? is it the same person the french guy ?

jason
 
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