Why do most SW fans say ESB is the best film in the OT?

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Youngling
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I've always liked both A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. ANH is a simpler tale, very much a fairy tale in space while ESB is a more strategic and wider-scoping storyline.
 

_Lee_

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TESB is the best movie ever made :D

Its my number one because it completely blew my mind. Hoth , Yoda and the big revelation about Vader was superior story telling and movie making. ANH is a close second followed by ROTJ.

I suppose that Star Wars was my childhood :D :D
 

TheJabbaWookie

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SAVORY100 said:
You kinda lost me by trying to suggest that The Matrix is a great movie :lol: but as this thread proves, everyone likes different things 8)
2) The film-making has to be admired.... filming in the snow is crazy difficult and to then 'do' special effects as well in the same environment as well as in post production with snow as the background and foreground is quite frankly an amazing achievement.
4) ESB has more traditional (western) film cues than Star Wars, it is more of a traditional war film in parts and a romance in others as well as some murder mystery and of course a scandalous thriller too... it has the best elements of every western movie genre, whereas Star Wars has a hero's journey and ROTJ has... i dunno actually, some fun kids version of the previous two combined maybe... odd film...
5) it was the first of the films I saw in the cinema; so it will always be 'that film' for me...
I heard an interview recently regarding the incredible studio production sets for the Hoth scenes and I think you're right, you definitely have to admire Lucas Films for seamlessly dblending post production with filming in a hostile environment to award winning effect.

When you say western are you referring to location or movie genre?

I wonder if point number 5 is the most important of all the points made. Seeing Empire on the big screen must of been mind-blowing. Subzero on the other hand, grew up with ROTJ and sights that as his favourite movie. I never saw any of the movies as a child at the cinema and was introduced to the OT with the Christmas premier of SW. These have probably had the greatest influences on defining our favourite movie.
 

SAVORY100

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TheJabbaWookie said:
SAVORY100 said:
You kinda lost me by trying to suggest that The Matrix is a great movie :lol: but as this thread proves, everyone likes different things 8)
2) The film-making has to be admired.... filming in the snow is crazy difficult and to then 'do' special effects as well in the same environment as well as in post production with snow as the background and foreground is quite frankly an amazing achievement.
4) ESB has more traditional (western) film cues than Star Wars, it is more of a traditional war film in parts and a romance in others as well as some murder mystery and of course a scandalous thriller too... it has the best elements of every western movie genre, whereas Star Wars has a hero's journey and ROTJ has... i dunno actually, some fun kids version of the previous two combined maybe... odd film...
5) it was the first of the films I saw in the cinema; so it will always be 'that film' for me...
I heard an interview recently regarding the incredible studio production sets for the Hoth scenes and I think you're right, you definitely have to admire Lucas Films for seamlessly dblending post production with filming in a hostile environment to award winning effect.

When you say western are you referring to location or movie genre?

I wonder if point number 5 is the most important of all the points made. Seeing Empire on the big screen must of been mind-blowing. Subzero on the other hand, grew up with ROTJ and sights that as his favourite movie. I never saw any of the movies as a child at the cinema and was introduced to the OT with the Christmas premier of SW. These have probably had the greatest influences on defining our favourite movie.

Not genre as such, more in the western tradition of film making
 

BrickFan

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The best Star Wars movie? The Empire Strikes Back!!

You have emotional twists, you have Han Solo on the run, you have the first view of Yoda and above all, you have Darth Vader with his Star Destroyer in full badass mode and The Imperial Death March blaring in the background.

End of, as far as im concerned.
 

Pomse2001

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I think esb is the best star wars movie ever. Love between leia and solo, luke learning vader is his father, the first time we see executor, at-at walkers, at-st walkers, snow speeders, rebel transporters, ion cannons, cloud city, the first time we see yoda, lando calrissian, boba fett. The battle for hoth, vader using the force to kill a few officers, bounty hunters, dagobah, obi-wan as a ghost, luke and vader fighting. Fantastic music in the movie. Everything is just better in that movie.
 

Ruby2511

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BrickFan said:
The best Star Wars movie? The Empire Strikes Back!!

You have emotional twists, you have Han Solo on the run, you have the first view of Yoda and above all, you have Darth Vader with his Star Destroyer in full badass mode and The Imperial Death March blaring in the background.

End of, as far as im concerned.

Second that Brick fan :D

Russ
 

TheJabbaWookie

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Pomse2001 said:
I think esb is the best star wars movie ever. Love between leia and solo, luke learning vader is his father, the first time we see executor, at-at walkers, at-st walkers, snow speeders, rebel transporters, ion cannons, cloud city, the first time we see yoda, lando calrissian, boba fett. The battle for hoth, vader using the force to kill a few officers, bounty hunters, dagobah, obi-wan as a ghost, luke and vader fighting. Fantastic music in the movie. Everything is just better in that movie.
You're right Lars... there are a fair few epic scenes in ESB but I still rate the Trench run in SW above the battle for Hoth; and like Rich said on the VR Pod Cast I'm not a massive fan of the Dagobah scenes - I like the training and it's focal to the story but despite Yoda being one of my favourite Kenner figures, the puppet work doesn't stand the test of time as well as some of the other scenes... and as for Obi Wan as a ghost... :lol:

But I'll give you Cloud City, Vader and the Bounty Hunters
 

Pomse2001

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TheJabbaWookie said:
Pomse2001 said:
I think esb is the best star wars movie ever. Love between leia and solo, luke learning vader is his father, the first time we see executor, at-at walkers, at-st walkers, snow speeders, rebel transporters, ion cannons, cloud city, the first time we see yoda, lando calrissian, boba fett. The battle for hoth, vader using the force to kill a few officers, bounty hunters, dagobah, obi-wan as a ghost, luke and vader fighting. Fantastic music in the movie. Everything is just better in that movie.
You're right Lars... there are a fair few epic scenes in ESB but I still rate the Trench run in SW above the battle for Hoth; and like Rich said on the VR Pod Cast I'm not a massive fan of the Dagobah scenes - I like the training and it's focal to the story but despite Yoda being one of my favourite Kenner figures, the puppet work doesn't stand the test of time as well as some of the other scenes... and as for Obi Wan as a ghost... :lol:

But I'll give you Cloud City, Vader and the Bounty Hunters

thanks for cloud city, vader and the bounty hunters :lol: :wink: what about the love scenes, the fantastic music ? :D
 

edd_jedi

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If pushed I would probably say ESB is my favourite, but that doesn't mean I think the other two (yes there are only three Star Wars films) are inferior. All three are masterpieces, and very different. ESB has the best sabre fight IMO - not the most technical, but that old saying "less is more." It has a perfect balance of action and suspense without being choreographed like a music video, something modern films don't seem to get. I also like the fact it ends in stalemate.
 

Crumm

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edd_jedi said:
If pushed I would probably say ESB is my favourite, but that doesn't mean I think the other two (yes there are only three Star Wars films) are inferior. All three are masterpieces, and very different. ESB has the best sabre fight IMO - not the most technical, but that old saying "less is more." It has a perfect balance of action and suspense without being choreographed like a music video, something modern films don't seem to get. I also like the fact it ends in stalemate.

That's a good point, no one really "wins" the fight as such.

Luke comes off the worst but there is no real winner. Keeps the audience on the hook :D
 

TheJabbaWookie

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edd_jedi said:
If pushed I would probably say ESB is my favourite, but that doesn't mean I think the other two (yes there are only three Star Wars films) are inferior. All three are masterpieces, and very different. ESB has the best sabre fight IMO - not the most technical, but that old saying "less is more." It has a perfect balance of action and suspense without being choreographed like a music video, something modern films don't seem to get. I also like the fact it ends in stalemate.
I was listening to the VR podcast and they had someone discussing this, saying that the older kids thought it was awesome because they could get their heads around the stalemate and the cliffhanger, but he was a younger kid and just didn't get the concept of good not winning or the film not concluding. I guess as a younger kid at the time when I watched the movies, this rings true and I just didn't get it either at the time and that has influenced the way I feel about it today.
 

tobedesu

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TheJabbaWookie said:
edd_jedi said:
If pushed I would probably say ESB is my favourite, but that doesn't mean I think the other two (yes there are only three Star Wars films) are inferior. All three are masterpieces, and very different. ESB has the best sabre fight IMO - not the most technical, but that old saying "less is more." It has a perfect balance of action and suspense without being choreographed like a music video, something modern films don't seem to get. I also like the fact it ends in stalemate.
I was listening to the VR podcast and they had someone discussing this, saying that the older kids thought it was awesome because they could get their heads around the stalemate and the cliffhanger, but he was a younger kid and just didn't get the concept of good not winning or the film not concluding. I guess as a younger kid at the time when I watched the movies, this rings true and I just didn't get it either at the time and that has influenced the way I feel about it today.

Yeah, I get that too.
I watched the double bill of star wars and empire at the thatre when I was about 7.
When I was a kid I think ROTJ was my favourite, mainly down to the Jabba scenes.
Star Wars fascinated me too as it was an introduction to the characters and the Tatooine sets were great along with all the droids and creatures.
As I got older, star wars still gives me the biggest thrills especially the first two thirds of the film. It's pure nostalgia when I watch it.

However, I began to get Empire when watched again in my teens.
These days it is my favourite.
It doesn't have the creature scenes like the other two which I loved as a kid.
It's obviously darker and grimmer. Throughout the film it seems like our heroes are always on the back foot, forever in peril, and that's exactly how it plays out.
It doesn't feel like a complete film, rather the link between 4 and 6.
The development between Han and Leia is great and the opening sequence and final fight are brilliant.
 

Snaketibe

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ESB has always been my favourite. I am old enough to have seen all three OT films in the cinema on their first release, and I dearly love the original Star Wars. It was love at first sight, with action, adventure, a terrific story and fabulous characters... And toys! ;-) However, after a three year wait ESB came along and it looked even better in my young eyes! All my favourite characters were back, but this time with added Yoda and Lando! Plus the brilliant spectacle of the AT-ATs, Dagobah, bounty hunters, asteroids, space slugs, and Cloud City! Not to mention John Williams who managed to surpass himself by composing Vader's Imperial March! What a piece of music that is! The film wasn't a retread of the original Star Wars, but instead took our characters and the story in exciting new directions. The film had drama, suspense, humour, excitement, danger, shocks, even a little romance. The lighting and cinematography were flawless, the special effects dazzling (and years ahead of their time), the acting and dialogue perfect, and the astonishing revelation that the ultimate evil dark lord Darth Vader was really Luke's father!

It was certainly more than enough to make me fall in love with the franchise all over again (not that I had ever fallen out of love with it), as it elevated the story to new heights in the most exciting and spectacular ways possible. And as an 8 year old in 1980, I completely understood the ending; there was no confusion for me. I hated the fact that the story ended when it did as I simply didn't want the story to ever end, plus I knew I'd have to wait 3 years to find out the fate of Han Solo, but I was never confused about it.

When ROJ came out I loved that too of course, but I was slightly disappointed that another Death Star needed destroying, as we'd already seen that, plus whilst I've never been an ewok hater, I've never truly loved them either, and the fight on Endor remains the least convincing part of the OT for me. I forgive that of course as it's still a brilliant film and also the rescue of Han Solo is my favourite part of the entire Star Wars saga. Overall however, looking at each film as a whole, for me Empire rules. It's a film that's really stood the test of time too, with precious few films since coming anywhere near it in my eyes. Perhaps it's unfair to compare the prequels or the sequels to the OT, as George and the amazingly creative team of talented individuals he had around him at the time helped capture lightning in a bottle, and repeating that feat was never going to be an easy task. Rogue One has come the closest to doing that for me (and I actually just prefer it to ROJ), but my heart will always belong to Empire.
 

Mr. Tie

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Although I like the complete OT, I prefer TESB and it's still my favourite movie. After seeing ANH I had the feeling that, while watching TESB, it was more like a rollercoaster. It had a certain pace and I liked the different stories because our heroes got split (Luke & R2 Dagobah and Han, Chewie, Leia and 3PO Bespin). Many interesting characters were introduced, like Yoda and the Emperor. The difference between good and evil was more present and I remember the shock after revealing Darth as Luke's father. It made me more obsessed by the man behind the mask. More characters meant more toys, it was almost a joy forever to me. Although ANH and ROTJ have a clear ending, I liked the fact that TESB gave me some space for imagination. Do we meet Han again? Will Luke confront Vader? It became all dark and sinister and I had this feeling that the dark intentions of the Empire became more clear to me. I don't know if this makes any sense, but it's how I experience this movie, even years and years later.
 

TheJabbaWookie

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Mr. Tie said:
Although I like the complete OT, I prefer TESB and it's still my favourite movie. After seeing ANH I had the feeling that, while watching TESB, it was more like a rollercoaster. It had a certain pace and I liked the different stories because our heroes got split (Luke & R2 Dagobah and Han, Chewie, Leia and 3PO Bespin). Many interesting characters were introduced, like Yoda and the Emperor. The difference between good and evil was more present and I remember the shock after revealing Darth as Luke's father. It made me more obsessed by the man behind the mask. More characters meant more toys, it was almost a joy forever to me. Although ANH and ROTJ have a clear ending, I liked the fact that TESB gave me some space for imagination. Do we meet Han again? Will Luke confront Vader? It became all dark and sinister and I had this feeling that the dark intentions of the Empire became more clear to me. I don't know if this makes any sense, but it's how I experience this movie, even years and years later.
I like your reasonings. Yes splitting up the characters is an interesting ploy. They did it in the Lord of the Rings, though there it was for whole swathes of the book and by the end I was itching to get back to Frodo and Samwise, and vice verse.
 
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