TT being creative or a real mis-card?

tiefighterboy

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It's FX Toys. He has been covering sticker damage and doing other shady things. Problem is some of his stuff is legit...you just never know what.
 

Joe

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Before the toni scandal broke these were always considered legit Palitoy miscards (same goes for Madine/Chewbacca). I'm not sure that opinion has changed since the bomb was dropped or?

Real or fake, all I do know for sure is that the guy that dropped $2.5k on it on eBay has more money than sense. He's on RS asking if it's a toni..after winning it for that amount of money!
 

jedisearcher

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Joe said:
Before the toni scandal broke these were always considered legit Palitoy miscards (same goes for Madine/Chewbacca). I'm not sure that opinion has changed since the bomb was dropped or?

Real or fake, all I do know for sure is that the guy that dropped $2.5k on it on eBay has more money than sense. He's on RS asking if it's a toni..after winning it for that amount of money!

Yeah that was where I saw it Joe. I think opinion has to change doesn't it with all the new evidence and doubts? I'd never seen one before, but there's just too much coincidence to make it likely it's legit, unless it has other features of a legit card.
 

Joe

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From a quick google it seems Jason wasn't sure in the beginning if they were legit but in 2014 he posted on Skye's site to say that he believed they were: http://chewseum.com/chivecast/some-palitoy-images-to-contemplate/ (scroll down to his replies at the bottom).

Personally I'd like to think they were real, I don't think it's the type of thing Toni would want to start creating even if he had perfected his craft at that point but who knows. Any idea if he sold any and if so what kind of prices he was offering them for? I don't recall ever seeing them for sale on his site.

Just looking at it (especially compared to the Madine/Chewie miscard with the Trilogo bubble)..then yes it does kind of scream Toni..but then we had all this with the Chewbacca with the Tall bubble and there are legit and Toni versions of that too :/
 

darth_daddius

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I'm pretty sure they are legit and this would be the third one I have personally seen, including my own. They are a bit like the Meccano Luke/Han miscard in my books.

There were 18 bids on it taking it up to that price, so at least one other was prepared to pay around that money. Wow I'm glad I got mine a LONG time ago....

Funny combo though. How can you get Chewie and Vader mixed up?!

Cheers
Pat
 

mr_palitoy

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My opinion on the Vader/Madine Chewbacca miscards hasn't changed. These have been in circulation since the early 90s. If Toni was starting out in the forging business, why would he put the wrong figures on the cards? Miscards were not big sellers back then. It would also draw attention to himself. He knew he was in it for the long haul and tried hard to cover his tracks with his rotating ebay buyers account. It just doesnt make sense.

Just becuase fxtoys has it, doesnt mean its dodgy. The afa graded palitoy vcj was owned by Torres in the early 2000s. Pieces will naturally pass through a bunch of collectors hands, both good and bad in reputation over the years.

And the bubble/seal on this ebay auction has good closeups that show the seal doesnt look like one of his and the bubble looks quite weathered.

Jason
 

mr_palitoy

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Joe said:
Just looking at it (especially compared to the Madine/Chewie miscard with the Trilogo bubble)..then yes it does kind of scream Toni..but then we had all this with the Chewbacca with the Tall bubble and there are legit and Toni versions of that too :/

This a clincher for me. Toni never ever used trilogo bubbles in his reseals so this means the madine/chewbacca combo is good. Which also implies the Vader/Chewbacca combo is good too.

Jason
 

finestcomics

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Excuse the necrobump, but I thought this to be an interesting development in this debate on whether these miscards are in fact TT's or not.

Vectis recently withdrew a Palitoy "65 punched cardback" Vader "miscard." I assumed it was because they suspected it to be a TT. I posted about it on my FB wall, and one of my friends commented it was legit.

At that time, I had already contacted Vectis - below I'm posting a screenshot of the auction for posterity, as well as two additional screenshots showing the question I posed to Vectis and the reply I received.
 

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finestcomics

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mr_palitoy said:
Vectis are mistaken.

cheers Jason

With all due respect, the claims these have been around since the 90's, and questioning the payoff for Toni to make miscards doesn't allay concerns well enough.

He had access to Chewie cardbacks, he had access to these blisters, and narrower blisters have been found with a bonding gap at the bottom of the blister. When I see one without, all these questions start to raise flags.

The counter opinion is that he was extremely dialed-in on trends, and cashed in on price surges - declaring these all as legit ignores the possibility he did produce them when the values on these started taking off. He had clearly done that with Fett's. At the time I bought one from him, he had sold dozens just on RS, told me (through an intermediary) he was out of stock, and magically came up with one a month or two later. This would have been several years before the scandal broke, miscards were already well above what a Fett was worth, plenty of time to come up with a few.
 

mr_palitoy

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The bonding gap is a clear sign of a legit seal, but many factory seals have no bonding gap as well.

This particular Vader also has a bubble placement not typical of a Toni, the bubble is much higher than he would have placed it.

And I just spoke to Kathy at Vectis about the Vader miscard. It was withdrawn because they were uncertain, not because they thought it was a sure fire Toni.

So nothing has changed as a result of Vectis withdrawing the auction lot imo.

cheers Jason
 

edd_jedi

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This is one of those examples where it will be hard to convince people either way. As above there are genuine examples out there, but as Toni had both the cards and bubbles used, it is hard to rule them out.
 

finestcomics

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aussiejames said:
42487010.jpg

example of legit- fully sealed, same bubble

Do you have a pic of the back? Yours looks right for a number of reasons, but to keep it specific to the comparison between the Vectis one and yours, the one thing about the Toni cardbacks is the gradient on the racetrack isn't right. It's just something you pick up from looking at paper/print, the hue is off, I've always felt this to be one of the underlooked tells of these cardbacks. The other is an unexplained reason that Vader seemingly defies gravity. Looking at the Vectis auction, you wonder if that is just an incidental photography hangup (i.e. is it laying down flat when he's being photographed), which causes him not to drop with feet to the bottom?

On this old listing (FXToys one actually that was the basis of this thread) I saved the photos to show the same issue - is Vader is seemingly stuck because the blister isn't wide enough? Seems reminiscent of one of the tells used to flag TT Fetts', where the blister isn't deep enough to allow the figure to stand without a lean - in this case, it's the width of the blister that isn't allowing Vader to drop to the bottom.

Sorry, seeing yours in a miscard doing what it should, and I asked for a pic of the back because the Vecits one doesn't appear to have any blister impression at all on it. That' can be difficult to photograph unless you get the right angle, and get light to bounce off that area to see it's raised. The graded example below is for context (there's a few other pics from that auction I saved), but I can't seem to reconcile this and other observations to lean confidentially enough that the Vectis one is a legit miscard.
 

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finestcomics

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aussiejames said:
pali_v10.jpg
Vader card is not on the Toni list

That's a terrific shot, didn't need to zoom in to see the blister impression from the back. Still can't see it in full zoom on Vectis.

And my bad, I had assumed it was posted as a comparitive miscard.
 
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