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Resealed figure discovery debate - G.Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Discuss vintage Kenner and Palitoy Star Wars toys from the 1977-1985 era.
ace
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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby ace » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:13 pm

Joe wrote:That must be the rare Mr Tumble Raider variant.


I appreciate you replying Jason but all I got from your post was that you own a lot of things..you haven't gone into any detail about any of the other fake items I mentioned earlier.

So..is there anything to add about the fake film props you have been associated with?

I don't dislike you, don't get me wrong. I don't actually know you to like or dislike you but I do like to know the truth.

If you came here to defend yourself then you need to answer the questions being asked, as it stands you seem to be writing novels but not really saying anything of any interest or relevance.

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hi Joe as you know this forum is new to me so i will cut up your message and respond to each point in tern


hi Joe if you have any issues with a particular prop or toys then i am happy to help with any into i can , but you need to let me know what item you are referring to , i have ready many posts and stories over the years most of which i do not even know what they are talking about about so i can only help on things i have been involved with , i am here to help and talk but please if you want more info on something then it will help to tell me what item it is and we can star from there , hope that helps give you a starting point.

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby paulcalf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:37 pm

Wow

Great pictures, thanks for posting (I am being serious here).

There now seem to be quite a few Tusken raider variants
Normal One
Hollow Cheek Tubes
Ace's Painted Nose variant (Only one known?)
Plus I don't know if any of you saw the picture I recently posted up of another extremely rare 'Two Tusk' variant of the Tusken Raider ?

At my house he was called the 'Two Chewed Tusken Raider', I have a couple of them so they aren't as rare as the Painted Nose variant. If anyone wants me to provide them with a rarer 'Two Chewed' Tusken, then please just send it to me and I will sort if free of charge. I refuse to do this for MOC ones though, whatever the condition of the card. So all those U graders don't ask as you will be disappointed.

I know the pictures are a bit grainy, but i promise you this variant is 100% from my childhood.

Image

I hope that brought a smile to someone's face, i'm not taking the piss out of Ace.

Ace I appreciate seeing the pictures, I think you should post as much as possible on here, even if you apparently have some questions to answer from the past.

ace wrote:
Maulster79 wrote:
thanks for that Maulster79 so has anyone else ever seen a tustan rader with a painted nose ? its sealed on the palitoy card so has anyone seen a loos one ?

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby ace » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:51 pm

PS: The Grey limbed Snowtroopers have been the subject of debate since they first showed up, many experienced collectors have seen them and given their opinion. I can assure you that most feel the same way about them: IF (big IF) these did originate from Palitoy they may represent a mould purge situation where random plastic was used. There are some isolated cases where Palitoy were involved in or had some dealings with"prototypes" (Palitoy Death Star springs to mind as it was designed by Bob Brechin, the kitbashed speeder bike that appeared on promotional images *but eventually discovered in Australia*) but for the most part they had NO reason to be making "first/test shots" or anything else. It was all handled by Kenner.

Now..if you weren't sure of what these were at the time you bought them, it would have been pretty wrong to call them prototypes and sell them as prototypes without any solid provenance. I also believe at some point you stopped selling them for "£30" and may have been selling them for as much as £200..

To me, that's akin to Mexican collectors selling Ledy factory overstock as prototypes and hoodwinking other collectors into believing them. It's called a scam.

You probably didn't manufacture them, I will agree with you there but you did nothing to properly identify them in the years since you first saw them till the day you sold your last one..or do you still have a few knocking around ;)

"Dealing" in fake goods and misrepresenting the items you sell to make them more appealing to a certain type of collector is just as bad as making them yourself.
[/quote]

Joe i was there at the covantry sic-if show when i first found then Jim stevenson was there David oliver was there , Mark woollard was there other colelctors was also there , at the same time Hoth bacta fluid centre white metal unpaged figures also turned up including the 21b so why were they there also ? who knwos mate but they turned up there any how , you are then talking to other collectors and listign to there "opinion" they were not there mate , we were we found them we bought them we sold them on to other collators , you do not here storys about the 12x 21 B 's i found and sold off from the same sorce . no as the they are what they are and others have found them in the US but the Hoth troopers have not been found before anywere else why i do not know but mate they were found there they are real and they are what they are , and i sold them for £20 to £30 tops for £200 back then you could get a carded POTF yak so people need to get real here they were novae sold by me fore £200 , with my trader hat on i was in it to sell it at £200 i would have died with it , what you do not know back then i was selling Lule bespin large palitoy logo case fresh unpunched for £17.50 , Leia bespin £20.00 ben unpuched large palitoy logo case fresh £65 stomtrooper unpuched large palitoy £25 that was the prices for these things , and i have sealed cases of them ask jim stevenson he bought him from me at westminster hall comic mart , around 90% of the mint carded 12 , 20 and first esb palitoy carded figers came from me finding a werhouse is Essex's and it was the mother load , this is what i did back then and at the time there was jim stevenson david oliver and mark woollard and myself and we were the top people in the UK with this stuff and we turned loads of it , and being a collectors i kept one of ever verdant i came across , anyway back to the hoth troopers i am sorry they are real and anyone that says otherwise they just are un knowing and just do not know there history , its easy to say i made something and just right it off , look a year ago everyone said i made the Palitoy jawa , they were wrong then and the people that say this hoth trooper is a fake are very wrong now , sorry , they trying to re right history not me i am putting it striate , hope that helps clear this one up :-)

and no Joe i did not manufacture them

also i did not sell them for something they were not if i remember at the time we all thought they were test shots , with hind site with the copyright being removed from the moulds it seems as they they may have been the test shots for the later figures made that were not made in Hong Kong ? but i am guesses ?

as to prototyping i am well aware what palitory made and develop here in the UK talking R2D2 hybrid from the 1974 Dalek , the green IMPIRAL TROOP TRASPORTER prototype which i know where that is located , i do not know if you know i sold off all the spear seat shots and prototypes that the prototype manufactures gave a way back in around 1997 in a public auction at cheshunt ? so i know a little bit about all this and there is very little i have not been involved with in the 1980s and 1990s in a very big way

one last point Joe you need to know this i have never knowingly sold a fake and i have never misrepresented something enable to sell it , i am not that sort of a person and i have never needed to earn money in that way , i have been lucky to have been able to pay for what ever i have needed over the years , at the time i made a good living buying and selling and i cannot remember a time when i could not buy any item i needed to in a collators show be it in the UK or the US , and it was things like that that did upset people a lot from time to time, if i was in the same room as another collector and i wanted something i just out bit them and i was good at doing that and going home with the item i wanted , i did that to steve in las vagus with the big kenner display stands and whent back with 18 lots i think and i did that when i needed my last imperial helmet in Christys when i outbid everyone and bought imp gunners helmet for a then record price of £19,000 , and then i found another around a year later for £5000 ho well you cannot whin them all :-) anyway you do not make friend collecting in this way ,but you get a great collection and plenty of enemies ;-), and i think thats the legacy i am dealing with here with these stories.

thank god a grew up and just keep my collecting low key and privet

hope that is of help

jason

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby ace » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:07 pm

paulcalf wrote:Wow

Great pictures, thanks for posting (I am being serious here).

There now seem to be quite a few Tusken raider variants
Normal One
Hollow Cheek Tubes
Ace's Painted Nose variant (Only one known?)
Plus I don't know if any of you saw the picture I recently posted up of another extremely rare 'Two Tusk' variant of the Tusken Raider ?

At my house he was called the 'Two Chewed Tusken Raider', I have a couple of them so they aren't as rare as the Painted Nose variant. If anyone wants me to provide them with a rarer 'Two Chewed' Tusken, then please just send it to me and I will sort if free of charge. I refuse to do this for MOC ones though, whatever the condition of the card. So all those U graders don't ask as you will be disappointed.

I know the pictures are a bit grainy, but i promise you this variant is 100% from my childhood.

Image

I hope that brought a smile to someone's face, i'm not taking the piss out of Ace.

Ace I appreciate seeing the pictures, I think you should post as much as possible on here, even if you apparently have some questions to answer from the past.

ace wrote:
Maulster79 wrote:
thanks for that Maulster79 so has anyone else ever seen a tustan rader with a painted nose ? its sealed on the palitoy card so has anyone seen a loos one ?




paulcalf how much is that, i must posses that item in my collection, its a lost hybrid its amazing i cannot sleep till i possess this stunning collectable :-D good one mate

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby tiefighterboy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:13 pm

My head hurts. Nice to see something new anyways. I will also add that people can reform themselves in this hobby from selling
fakes , repro's Etc.......So maybe we give the guy a 2nd chance, BTW I have been collecting since 1991 or there abouts...so there are a few of us old timers around. :wink:

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby Richard_H » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:24 pm

No Todd, you're the only old timer. The rest of us are middle aged timers.

Some great photos and interesting posts here.
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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:31 pm

So far its a one sided case about 'fakes etc'.

Some of these deals seem to happen pre-internet/early internet.

It also appears that Jason has been out of the allegations and discourse that followed for 10 years. Its nice to finally hear the other side of the stories.

I have only met Jason twice and he does have an impressive knowledge about collecting when most of todays community where still trying to work out if they like Nirvana or New Kids on the Block.

I find it fucking ironic, that some of the very people who are quick to shoot Jason down are more than happy to celebrate a good time at his conventions. The conventions that actually give to the star wars community by having access to cast and crew some of which I have no idea where in the film. Yet the same people are quick to defend ugrading pricks who are actually destroying the future of the hobby and causing prices to go up.

All I'm saying is can we keep this guy? Can we-until he's proven guilty of something.
Last edited by Grant_C on Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby paulcalf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:35 pm

I can sort you one for a full set of Palitoy cardbacks, just don't open any of your MOC's ones to secure the deal.

You have enough problems without becoming a U grading card opener as well!

ace wrote:
paulcalf how much is that, i must posses that item in my collection, its a lost hybrid its amazing i cannot sleep till i possess this stunning collectable :-D good one mate

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby ace » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:36 pm

joe just had a look at your web site again nice job and you have put a lot of time into that i can see , i can also see you have a passion for the hobby thats cool but i am not what you think i am mate but in time maybe you will see that , anyway moving on to a interesting thing and you may know

about 15 years a go i bought a lot of cards in and in there there was a what you call on your site "TYPE: HYBRID TRILOGOS" it was a walrus man but its head was not dark it was light green , now at the time i thought it was just doggy plastic ? but then i looked and the hands and they were also very light green also ? so i kept it like o did back then , i am shore it was what you call the Hybrid card its 100% sealed on the card and the head is light green plastic and the hands are light green paint so do you know what this is or again it the a first ?

sorry you know i have not kept up to date on al thats been found but i alwase wanted to know and wondered if you did now ?

talk soon

jason

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby paulcalf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:40 pm

Just in case anyone thinks I support U grading I don't, it is wrong.

I think Ace should carry on posting on here, he has great old school knowledge, regardless of what has or hasn't happened in the past.

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby Grant_C » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:46 pm

Fuck yeah- be nice to have new information.

I have loads of questions i'd like to give over time about vintage star wars OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby tiefighterboy » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:47 pm

Welcome to the forum Jason. This is not RS and you are welcome here.....as long as you behave....well most of the time. :wink:

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby paulcalf » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:51 pm

Ace, I think you should pay a visit to your Star Wars storage place and photograph as many of the weird variants as possible. It won't stop people saying you were up to no good in the past, but it will entertain the rest of us.

Come on Ace, lets see a showcase to end all showcases!

I really don't think anyone will ever believe that you have a genuine Palitoy Vinyl Caped Jawa, if i was you i'd just open it up, send me the card back and sell the figure loose on ebay. Just make sure you you do a zip test and take a photo of the cape next to an Obi Wan Cape so people can see the colour and will know it is a genuine VCJ!

ace wrote:joe just had a look at your web site again nice job and you have put a lot of time into that i can see , i can also see you have a passion for the hobby thats cool but i am not what you think i am mate but in time maybe you will see that , anyway moving on to a interesting thing and you may know

about 15 years a go i bought a lot of cards in and in there there was a what you call on your site "TYPE: HYBRID TRILOGOS" it was a walrus man but its head was not dark it was light green , now at the time i thought it was just doggy plastic ? but then i looked and the hands and they were also very light green also ? so i kept it like o did back then , i am shore it was what you call the Hybrid card its 100% sealed on the card and the head is light green plastic and the hands are light green paint so do you know what this is or again it the a first ?

sorry you know i have not kept up to date on al thats been found but i alwase wanted to know and wondered if you did now ?

talk soon

jason

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby ace » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:52 pm

paulcalf wrote:Just in case anyone thinks I support U grading I don't, it is wrong.

I think Ace should carry on posting on here, he has great old school knowledge, regardless of what has or hasn't happened in the past.



thank you for the kind words , its ok i expected a tuff few days but as i have said i really do not have anything to hide so its not stressful or anything like that its just a little odd as i remember things quite well even thought it was a long time ago , but that history back then seems to not have been kept , its very interesting , dose anyone know about the Kenner/Tonka sale in colvile lester in the 1990s ? has anyone recorded this stuff or has talked about this ? dose anyone even know of Geoff's Toys ? or the 25,000 German card back figure hall from 1989 ? are these things anyone on here knows about ? i thought someone would know of that stuff ? do let me know ? if not wow i must be old :-( ok everyone i am 43 saw star wars in 1977 as Gary Kurtz told me i was his target audience, i told him back this is all his fault, he smiled :-) , anyway one last thing and do not shout at me whats "U grading" sorry i am new here :-\

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Re: Gary Kurtz Palitoy VC Jawa.

Postby Richard_H » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:55 pm

U grading is a hobby practised by twats whereby they send carded figures to AFA who will open them and grade the figure U and then a number. U stands for uncirculated.
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