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Vintage Star Wars Collecting
Vintage Collecting Chat
Long Time suspected FAKE baggies scam / seller
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<blockquote data-quote="Joe" data-source="post: 433347" data-attributes="member: 440"><p>I've been trying to keep up best I can with all of this while on holiday but haven't had the time to sit down and reply until now.</p><p></p><p>I want to say a quick thanks to Frank for all his hard work within the baggie collecting world and for trying his best to spearhead this investigation and bring it to peoples attention.</p><p></p><p>I've read through most of the posts and comments on SWF. Its been an interesting read to say the least. While some people have raised fair points and criticisms I have to say that I was quite shocked at the amount of people posting who were seemingly more worried about this dealers reputation taking a beating than the fact that they had just found out that he's been selling fakes for a period of years!</p><p></p><p>As has been said by others, outing a bad seller or dodgy community member without contacting them first isn't a new thing so I'm not sure why that's such an issue although I am in agreement that the wording of Franks initial post wasn't well thought out.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The problem here is that Jeff and the legitimacy of some of the baggies he sells has come up in conversation many times before now, mostly in private but there have been a few watch out threads too. I started one a few years ago myself (its been linked several times now) and instead of a "thanks for the heads up" response that one might expect after warning about fake items I had a load of people say what a good seller he was! :roll: </p><p></p><p>Lets just be clear on something, Jeff HAS been made aware of dodgy items in the past. Whether that was via returns on ebay or through collector opinion/input its not like he thought everything he sold up until now was legit and this is all new to him, he's known for years that people have raised some concerns because they've done so directly with him!</p><p></p><p>Its worth noting that Frank has actually defended Jeff in the past and/or given him the benefit of the doubt too, so this is nothing personal. I think when the volume of fakes increased and it became apparent that they all traced back to Jeff, frustration set in and an urge to warn the community become Franks number one priority..and here we are.</p><p></p><p>Sure, you can blame Frank for the wrong choice of words in his original post, you can blame him for the way he presented the evidence, you can even blame him for jumping the gun or putting a "good bloke" like Jeff in the firing line but at some point you have to stop and think.. If there weren't people like Frank out there, people that cared so much about a particular area of our great hobby that they would put their own reputation (and in this case their own collection..that's the sound of the baggie market collapsing btw) on the line just to stop others falling foul of some sellers counterfeit items, then every single one of you would be up **** creek without a paddle. Totally unaware of the legitimacy of the items in your own collection, proudly displaying your billy boy samples, pristine Toni mocs..or some of Jeff's Baggies.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If it had only been one dodgy item returned or one issue raised we wouldn't be here doing this 25+ pages later but its clearly not and it includes all kinds of bagged variations from Kenner to palitoy and even Meccano's.</p><p></p><p>Do I think he's making the counterfeit baggies himself? Honestly I'm still undecided and realistically its unlikely that we will ever know but even if he isn't the guy cranking these out he IS still the one selling them. These have been sent out to unsuspecting buyers and collectors around the world for a good few years and as a seasoned collector/dealer he has to know what he's selling, end of. There is no excuse for passing on that many dodgy figures, none whatsoever..so please don't try to find one for him just because you've shared a smile and a hello with him at a convention.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm glad to see more evidence being found and brought into the thread, especially by those who are using their time to investigate his past sales and listings on worthpoint etc.</p><p></p><p>At this point it's safe to say that he's guilty of selling fakes. He's also guilty of selling on fakes that he's been told weren't quite right and now hes guilty of telling few white lies about what he's sold or hasn't sold.. However this came out, I'm glad it did and I sincerely hope every single baggie collector is reading this and taking note.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Joe, post: 433347, member: 440"] I've been trying to keep up best I can with all of this while on holiday but haven't had the time to sit down and reply until now. I want to say a quick thanks to Frank for all his hard work within the baggie collecting world and for trying his best to spearhead this investigation and bring it to peoples attention. I've read through most of the posts and comments on SWF. Its been an interesting read to say the least. While some people have raised fair points and criticisms I have to say that I was quite shocked at the amount of people posting who were seemingly more worried about this dealers reputation taking a beating than the fact that they had just found out that he's been selling fakes for a period of years! As has been said by others, outing a bad seller or dodgy community member without contacting them first isn't a new thing so I'm not sure why that's such an issue although I am in agreement that the wording of Franks initial post wasn't well thought out. The problem here is that Jeff and the legitimacy of some of the baggies he sells has come up in conversation many times before now, mostly in private but there have been a few watch out threads too. I started one a few years ago myself (its been linked several times now) and instead of a "thanks for the heads up" response that one might expect after warning about fake items I had a load of people say what a good seller he was! :roll: Lets just be clear on something, Jeff HAS been made aware of dodgy items in the past. Whether that was via returns on ebay or through collector opinion/input its not like he thought everything he sold up until now was legit and this is all new to him, he's known for years that people have raised some concerns because they've done so directly with him! Its worth noting that Frank has actually defended Jeff in the past and/or given him the benefit of the doubt too, so this is nothing personal. I think when the volume of fakes increased and it became apparent that they all traced back to Jeff, frustration set in and an urge to warn the community become Franks number one priority..and here we are. Sure, you can blame Frank for the wrong choice of words in his original post, you can blame him for the way he presented the evidence, you can even blame him for jumping the gun or putting a "good bloke" like Jeff in the firing line but at some point you have to stop and think.. If there weren't people like Frank out there, people that cared so much about a particular area of our great hobby that they would put their own reputation (and in this case their own collection..that's the sound of the baggie market collapsing btw) on the line just to stop others falling foul of some sellers counterfeit items, then every single one of you would be up **** creek without a paddle. Totally unaware of the legitimacy of the items in your own collection, proudly displaying your billy boy samples, pristine Toni mocs..or some of Jeff's Baggies. If it had only been one dodgy item returned or one issue raised we wouldn't be here doing this 25+ pages later but its clearly not and it includes all kinds of bagged variations from Kenner to palitoy and even Meccano's. Do I think he's making the counterfeit baggies himself? Honestly I'm still undecided and realistically its unlikely that we will ever know but even if he isn't the guy cranking these out he IS still the one selling them. These have been sent out to unsuspecting buyers and collectors around the world for a good few years and as a seasoned collector/dealer he has to know what he's selling, end of. There is no excuse for passing on that many dodgy figures, none whatsoever..so please don't try to find one for him just because you've shared a smile and a hello with him at a convention. I'm glad to see more evidence being found and brought into the thread, especially by those who are using their time to investigate his past sales and listings on worthpoint etc. At this point it's safe to say that he's guilty of selling fakes. He's also guilty of selling on fakes that he's been told weren't quite right and now hes guilty of telling few white lies about what he's sold or hasn't sold.. However this came out, I'm glad it did and I sincerely hope every single baggie collector is reading this and taking note. [/QUOTE]
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