ROTJ Palitoy Chewbacca confirmation.

Out of interest what makes you certain none of these (apart from the one with a trilogo bubble) originated from Toni? He's had these things since the late 80s, unless you bought it in a shop yourself or it has an unquestionable shop sticker, it doesn't matter where you got them from, they could have originated from Toni. Creases and price sticker tears aren't proof of it coming from a shop, both are easy to forge.

I've just thought of something - have Vectis sold any of these from Beech's? I remember seeing Palitoy Vader's in the photos of shipping cases. If we can see one that 100% didn't originate from Toni that has the same central bubble position and lack of indentation on the back, that would add weight to your argument.

edd_jedi said:

Out of interest what makes you certain none of these (apart from the one with a trilogo bubble) originated from Toni? He's had these things since the late 80s, unless you bought it in a shop yourself or it has an unquestionable shop sticker, it doesn't matter where you got them from, they could have originated from Toni. Creases and price sticker tears aren't proof of it coming from a shop, both are easy to forge.

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Because they came out of larger groups of carded Palitoy figure lots, many of which weren't Toytoni types and in the same type of conditions. They were never purchased individually but in batches.

edd_jedi said:

I've just thought of something - have Vectis sold any of these from Beech's? I remember seeing Palitoy Vader's in the photos of shipping cases. If we can see one that 100% didn't originate from Toni that has the same central bubble position and lack of indentation on the back, that would add weight to your argument.

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Here's a Beech's one:

edd_jedi said:

Out of interest what makes you certain none of these (apart from the one with a trilogo bubble) originated from Toni? He's had these things since the late 80s, unless you bought it in a shop yourself or it has an unquestionable shop sticker, it doesn't matter where you got them from, they could have originated from Toni. Creases and price sticker tears aren't proof of it coming from a shop, both are easy to forge.

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Edd,

If we thought like that all the time, then all any moc would be brought into question and another tin of worms being opened. The paranoia created by thinking that everything to do with such a figure is suspect will obviously lead to people becoming cautious and others worrying about their financial outlays. I trust Andy 100% and i know for a fact that he knows more about Toni than most. The photos he provided are good examples and i beleive all are legit. Thousands of people trust AFA/UKG and that backfired on them bigtime, but given the choice i would trust Andy over anything those lot have to say.

I started this thread to stop people from thinking that everything they owned was fake, because the impression i get is that there is a lot of un-needed panic. There is NO real authority on these, and its buyer beware. However, to suggest that every MOC is questionable is way off the mark.

As far as Toni goes, i have been studying these from day 1 and am making notes on a lot of things. I still dont give a second thought to the original cardbacks/bubbles list as to me it is wholly innaccurate to what Toni himself owned. yes, they were what was there for sale but to think that every single one has been used to reseal to make MOC is ludicrous. Yes Toni was doing it, but he wasnt the only one and im 95% sure of that. Someone said a long time ago they heard JJ saying he was making them to order-but why hasnt he provided this info?

I am trying to lookout for my fellow collectors, and im determined to keep finding more info about this. I dont want to be known as 'The expert' or go onto any panels, i just want piece of mind for my friends and others. Accolades are not what i want, i just want the truth.

Lee

Unfortunately Lee that's just how the world works once fakes get in to circulation. Cashiers check £50 notes in shops, art dealers check old paintings, and now people scrutinise Palitoy ROTJ MOCs that were on Toni's cardback list. That's just the way it is. I don't like it, but as soon as fakes are proven to be in circulation it sadly affects the repuation of them all. There's nothing we can do about that, the damage is done. Assuming they are all legit until proven otherwise is a dangerous approach.

However, that photo of a Beech's/Vectis one above certainly gives me hope some of these mint ones are genuine.

I forgot to subscribe this topic and only caught up with it late last night.

Having read the posts I certainly feel happier about my example so thanks guys. 8)

I've always been pretty much convinced it's right as it was sold to me by a respected forum member with a library of moc's in his possession. He showed me a load of TTs when I went to get it and the difference was fairly obvious - very flat on the back with a few dubious figures and print errors on some of the cards (many were seconds I believe).

Perhaps the best way as Edd states would be to see a Vectis example known to be legit. Hopefully another will come up.I went to have a look at the last couple of auctions - maybe me or another will be able to bump this with some pics of a good one at some point.

I have one of these I first purchased in 2000/2001. Offer date blacked out. Card in good knick. The bubbles right corner goes almost half way into the 'C' of the Chewbacca text on the yellow graphic, which I've only seen once on another version of this Chewbacca looking at pics... It just so happens to be exactly like the one posted above with the price sticker residue. My point is leading to one thing which never quite gets a mention with regards to fakes is the corner of the bubbles. It tends to be overlooked possibly...

We know TT used to iron between stems (he wasn't very observant) and very crude.
We know he used the wrong bubbles and didn't care too much, he just wanted to make a few quid each time (that was his goal).
We know Palitoy produced smooth bubble seals (no waffle) inconsistently throughout the ROTJ line.
We know the machines at the time sealed the bubbles firmly at the side, angled right in at the crease where the bubbles edge meets the bubbles plate.

This left the 4 corners of the bubble more exposed to not being sealed and less exposed to the heat during the factory process.

It is possible the corners of the bubble prise away from the card with time... but if I was actually looking for TT I would be looking for these 4 corners to be firmly sealed to the card. On an original Palitoy I would expect to be able get my nail or scalpel underneath the very corner. Just a consideration.

Hod10 said:

I have one of these I first purchased in 2000/2001. Offer date blacked out. Card in good knick. The bubbles right corner goes almost half way into the 'C' of the Chewbacca text on the yellow graphic, which I've only seen once on another version of this Chewbacca looking at pics... It just so happens to be exactly like the one posted above with the price sticker residue. My point is leading to one thing which never quite gets a mention with regards to fakes is the corner of the bubbles. It tends to be overlooked possibly...

We know TT used to iron between stems (he wasn't very observant) and very crude.
We know he used the wrong bubbles and didn't care too much, he just wanted to make a few quid each time (that was his goal).
We know Palitoy produced smooth bubble seals (no waffle) inconsistently throughout the ROTJ line.
We know the machines at the time sealed the bubbles firmly at the side, angled right in at the crease where the bubbles edge meets the bubbles plate.

This left the 4 corners of the bubble more exposed to not being sealed and less exposed to the heat during the factory process.

It is possible the corners of the bubble prise away from the card with time... but if I was actually looking for TT I would be looking for these 4 corners to be firmly sealed to the card. On an original Palitoy I would expect to be able get my nail or scalpel underneath the very corner. Just a consideration.

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Ive noticed that on many factory seals. The edges arent sealed at all, all the way round. Another good tell.

Jason

Yep. I'm confused as to what was going on at Palitoy during the entire ROTJ line...

45C = smooth with no waffle, gaps in the seal where the stems would of been.
65A = waffled all around.
65D = smooth all around without gaps in the seal for the stems.

It's a pain now that Chewbacca had been such a popular character. I'd imagine most kids back then already had the figure at this time and also the figure didn't lose paint too easily as the paint used was minimal (bit of a shelf filler). Hence he didn't need to get replaced too often either. Seems to be a lot of this figure about which causes even more suspicion among collectors about the 143 possible fakes.